Nithya Ruff is an expert on open source. As the head of AWS’s Open Source Program Office and the Chair of the Linux Foundation, she has a wide view on all things open source.

On this episode of CRAFTED., we discuss:

• Why Open Source AI is so tricky, but also so essential, to define
• How open source needs to evolve for the next generation of developers
• What an Open Source Program Office is — and why companies like AWS have them
• The questions, benefits, and risks that arise when a company is considering using open source technologies
• Why contributing to open source (“giving back”) is not always so selfless: relying on a successful, well-supported open source technology can be very advantageous to companies
• Why you need need to be deliberate when growing an open source project – just let it grow organically is not a great recipe for success today
• How open source draws on so many skills beyond coding, such as community management, marketing, and legal
• How open source is not just for software. Social change, agriculture, and other domains often use open source approaches
• Nithya’s path, and why she loves with open source

Key Moments:

• (02:20) - The state of open source today
• (04:47) - Teaching a new generation the values of open source, increasing diversity
• (07:38) - Open source AI, why we need a definition of it, and why we should insist on it or else live in a “black box” future
• (11:34) - Open source is full of possibilities
• (13:08) - What an OSPO (Open Source Program Office) is and why companies have them
• (16:18) - Common open source questions developers face
• (21:24) - How to balance risk vs. reward when using open source
• (25:21) - Why (most) open source projects should not grow organically, and the value of community management
• (27:13) - Open source is not just for code. Social good, agriculture, and other applications…
• (29:00) - Nithya’s story: how she got into tech and why she fell in love with open source because it draws on so many skills, beyond just coding
• (33:21) - Outro

CRAFTED. is brought to you in partnership with Docker, which helps developers build, share, run and verify applications anywhere – without environment confirmation or management. More than 20 million developers worldwide use Docker's suite of development tools, services and automations to accelerate the delivery of secure applications.

CRAFTED. is produced by Modern Product Minds, where CRAFTED. host Dan Blumberg and team can help you take a new product from zero to one... and beyond. We specialize in early stage product discovery, growth, and experimentation. Learn more at modernproductminds.com

Subscribe to CRAFTED., follow the show, and sign up for the newsletter 👉 crafted.fm

Mario Rodriguez is GitHub's Chief Product Officer. And he believes that Copilot and other AI advances will unleash a wave of creativity and enable a billion people to be software developers.

Mario says the definition of “software developer” will have to change as non-professionals discover that they can make apps, too. And the way they do so will look very different: “It's gonna feel a lot more like how kids play. ​​It's like you create something you play with and you're like, Nope. Then you instruct it again… It’s going to be real time development.”

On this episode of CRAFTED., Mario gets us excited about the future of software development!

Takeaways:

• Mario says we’ve lost some of the creativity of the early days of the web; AI is helping bring it back
• With AI, it’s getting much easier (for non-professional developers) to build “micro experiences” and other ephemeral apps that just serve one purpose.
• The craft of product management must change with AI, because building with non-deterministic AI is so tricky to get right
• When building with AI, run your scenario multiple times. Test your prompts repeatedly. You will get different responses each time. Are they all helpful to your user?
• Invest in offline evaluation when building with AI or else you’ll have lots of problems later.
• Psychology is key. How will users react if AI tells them something subjective? Mario has seen Copilot users get upset, e.g. “Nope, you're completely wrong. I know what I'm doing. You are a machine. I am not gonna ask you to ever review my code.”
• Don’t optimize for just one metric. Mario says you should have three or so that you evaluate in concert.
• Product sense matters!
• Prompt engineering is real. How you can better prompt your Copilot
• Keeping developers in flow is critical.
• How much time do developers spend on “sense-making” vs. coding? How much time do they spend waiting for reviews? These are some of the questions GitHub asks when evaluating developer productivity.
• Mario came to the US from Cuba when he was in high school. His father is an electrical engineer and his mother is a teacher. Both influence him greatly.
• Mario founded a charter school in rural North Carolina because “everyone should have access to amazing education.”
• System thinking and evaluating things from first principles are key skills for the future.

CRAFTED. is brought to you in partnership with Docker, which helps developers build, share, run and verify applications anywhere – without environment confirmation or management. More than 20 million developers worldwide use Docker's suite of development tools, services and automations to accelerate the delivery of secure applications.

CRAFTED. is produced by Modern Product Minds, where CRAFTED. host Dan Blumberg and team can help you take a new product from zero to one... and beyond. We specialize in early stage product discovery, growth, and experimentation.

Subscribe to CRAFTED., follow the show, and sign up for the newsletter 👉 crafted.fm

Key Moments

• (00:00) - Intro
• (02:32) - 1B Developers!
• (05:53) - Ephemeral apps and how they will unleash creativity and learning
• (06:21) - The time Dan programmed his TI-83 calculator to play blackjack
• (07:32) - Why “natural language is going to take center stage” as software development evolves
• (10:30) - Why building with Generative AI is completely different
• (13:50) - Why humans don’t always respond well to suggestions from CoPilot
• (15:36) - Why offline evaluation is so important when building with AI
• (19:14) - Building Copilot: balancing speed with value
• (21:01) - Why “product sense” matter so much
• (21:54) - Tips for prompting CoPilot effectively
• (27:02) - Building Copilot: the early days
• (31:47) - How GitHub measures developer happiness
• (34:23) - Growing up in Cuba and developing a love for teaching (his mom’s profession) and engineering (his dad’s)
• (38:21) - Why Mario founded a school in rural North Carolina
• (40:34) - Systems thinking, and other skills that Mario hopes today’s kids will learn
• (43:19) - Outro

Henrik Werdelin is on an AI-fueled mission to launch thousands of startups a year.

He is the founder of BARK, which went public, and prehype, a studio that has incubated several unicorns. With Audos, Henrik is building AI agents that can coach founders how he would — if he had infinite time to do so.

And Audos is not just for the cliche founder looking to launch a unicorn… It’s for entrepreneurs of all stripes. With AI making things easier, Henrik expects to see lots more “DonkeyCorns,” i.e. highly profitable businesses operated by just one or two people.

“DonkeyCorns party like unicorns, but they grind like mules.”

Check out this episode for lots of practical tips for how you can get more out of AI. Plus, we’ll peer into the weird future we’re building.

Takeaways from this episode:

• AI enables new businesses to be created, launched, and tested very quickly. Henrik shares how Audos uses AI to help founders focus on their customers, launch, and get customers
• Henrik talks to his AI agents like they’re people: He gives them names and backstories. By doing so, he finds he has a better partner than a bot or Google search would be.
• The more creative you are with prompts, the better the AI will be. e.g., Ask for “ten ideas that will definitely get me fired”
• “Customer-founder fit” is the most important ingredient to Henrik
• Use “signal mining” to prove there is real demand for your product
• “The swipe” proves there is real intent for your product, i.e. get people to pay for it, even if you haven’t built it yet.
• BARK succeeded (it’s gone public) by following its mission (be “Disney for dogs”) not by following its utility (boxes of stuff for pets)
• “Relationship capital” and “humanity” will be more important, as AI continues to excel at technical jobs.
• Take AI seriously right now. And Henrik says senior leaders need to be using it themselves
• It’s weird out there: We discuss the uncanny valley of talking to AI agents (including those that impersonate your dead spouse)
• Rock and roll – Henrik tells the story of his career break: As an intern, he pulled an on-air stunt at MTV that he was sure would get him fired, but instead got him a huge promotion.

Henrik is the author of The Acorn Method: How Companies Get Growing Again. And he’s writing a new book, Me, My Customer, and AI. He also co-hosts the podcast Beyond the Prompt, which features the interesting, weird, and uncanny-valley ways people are using AI in their day-to-day lives, as well as practical tips for how you can go beyond “beginner mode” in your own use of AI.

CRAFTED. is brought to you in partnership with Docker, which helps developers build, share, run and verify applications anywhere – without environment confirmation or management. More than 20 million developers worldwide use Docker's suite of development tools, services and automations to accelerate the delivery of secure applications.

CRAFTED. is produced by Modern Product Minds, where CRAFTED. host Dan Blumberg and team can help you take a new product from zero to one... and beyond. We specialize in early-stage product discovery, growth, and experimentation.

Subscribe to CRAFTED., follow the show, and sign up for the newsletter 👉 crafted.fm

Key Moments

• (00:00) - Intro
• (02:56) - Henrik’s method for launching startups
• (04:08) - Why “customer-founder fit” is the first thing he looks for and how it manifested at BARK
• (06:43) - How to use “signal mining” to prove there is real demand for your product
• (08:42) - Launching BARK Air, “a totally real airline for dogs”
• (12:28) - Launching Audos and using AI to launch thousands of startups a year
• (18:07) - “DonkeyCorns!” Why we will see more highly profitable companies run by just one or two people
• (22:32) - How Henrik uses AI, why he personifies his agents, and the creative prompts he uses
• (28:52) - The stunt that nearly got Henrik fired at MTV, but instead was his career break
• (32:02) - Why big companies need to take AI seriously right now
• (35:29) - How Henrik advises entrepreneurs looking for their next play
• (38:14) - “Pursue interestingness”
• (39:26) - The uncanny valley of AI embodying people
• (40:52) - Outro