“The armchair warriors sit back with their violence of the tongue that leads to the violence of the gun, or the assaults on the streets, or the tearing down of your own community and your businesses. And that can be prevented.” – Monica McWilliams

The Northern Ireland conflict, known by many as the “Troubles,” lasted three decades. Close to four thousand people were killed, and more than 50 thousand were wounded by political violence in a nation of less than 2 million.

The Protestant, or Unionist, community held the majority of power and privileges in Northern Ireland and was strongly allied with the British government. On the other side, the Catholic community faced discrimination in housing, education, and employment. While many Catholics pursued equality through a nonviolent civil rights movement, a violent backlash by Unionist leaders and the British government precipitated a guerilla war, fought by paramilitaries on both sides.

Our guests on this episode are two courageous individuals who challenged their own communities to make peace.

Monica McWilliams is the Co-Founder of the Northern Ireland Women’s Coalition, a women’s political party that bridged the divide in her country. As a negotiator in the peace talks, McWilliams faced misogyny and anti-Catholic bias. She’s since served as an elected representative in Northern Ireland’s government and as Chief Commissioner for Human Rights, and she continues to work on social justice and peacebuilding in Northern Ireland and around the world.

Mike Nesbitt is the leader of the Ulster Unionist Party and the current Minister of Health for Northern Ireland. He covered the 1998 Good Friday Agreement and its aftermath as a broadcast journalist.

McWilliams and Nesbitt came of age in a deeply segregated society where politics were personal and violence was intimate. Like Americans today, our guests and their communities had to navigate living together in an atmosphere of deep mistrust. We can learn from their mistakes and their successes in rebuilding trust and constructive communication.

Music in this episode by Gavin Luke, John and the Land of Plenty, August Wilhelmsson, Blue Dot Sessions, Jon Algar, and Martin Landh,

How Do We Get Through This? is hosted by Tim Phillips, Founder and CEO of Beyond Conflict. It's produced and edited by Andrea Muraskin, with additional editing by Ashley-Milne Tyte. We have marketing support from Summer Heidish.

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“Everybody in the world, including ourselves, thought it was insurmountable.” - Roelf Meyer

Just over 30 years ago, South Africa was at a tipping point. Nelson Mandela and his party, the African National Congress, were in tense negotiations with the ruling National Party to bring an end to the brutal Apartheid system. In 1994, the two sides emerged with a new constitution that established equal rights for all citizens, black and white, and the country held its first democratic election.

But that transformation was not easy. South Africa came close to civil war multiple times during those negotiations. Extremists on both sides carried out bombings, assassinations, and large scale attacks. In the four years between Mandela’s release from prison and the first democratic elections, more than 20,000 people – men, women, and children – died in the violence.

Our guests this episode sat across that negotiating table from one another. Mohammed Bhabha was a leading activist in the ANC freedom struggle. During Apartheid, he was a lawyer who defended ANC members, and he went on to serve in parliament under Mandela. Roelf Meyer served in parliament and held top positions in the Apartheid government. Though they started as enemies, the hard-won trust they built helped shape the future of their country.

While South Africa isn’t perfect, Roelf and Mohammed bring powerful lessons that Americans can apply to find common ground, re-humanize the “other” and safeguard democracy.

Music by Blue Dot Sessions, Erik Lindgren, Gavin Luke, Martin Landh, Hampus Naeselius

How Do We Get Through This? is hosted by Tim Phillips, Founder and CEO of Beyond Conflict. It's produced and edited by Andrea Muraskin, with additional editing by Ashley-Milne Tyte. We have marketing support from Summer Heidish.

Connect with us at Beyond Conflict

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