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What do negotiating with kidnappers and talking to your teenager have in common?

Everything!

In this episode, we sit down with Scott Walker, one of the world’s most experienced kidnap-for-ransom and crisis negotiators, to explore what high-stakes hostage negotiation can teach us about everyday conversations. With over 300 successful cases under his belt, Scott now trains leaders at Apple, Amazon, the UN, and beyond.

Whether you're negotiating a deal, a deadline, or dinner, Scott’s wisdom will help you regulate better, listen smarter, and get more of what matters — without a fight.

We should have titled this episode "What can a hostage negotiator teach us about negotiating at work, while parenting, and during high-pressure conversations?" 😄

We talk with Scott about:

• Why “negotiation” isn’t just for boardrooms
• The 3 types of conversation (and how to spot them)
• Why most of us misunderstand the type of conversation we’re in
• The one mindset shift that makes you a better communicator overnight
• How to regulate your emotions mid-conflict (aka “Paws (pause). Toes. Choose.”)
• Why assumptions are expensive, and listening is cheap
• How to deal with difficult people without losing your cool

This episode is packed with tools, stories, and sticky metaphors that will change the way you communicate – from pirates to partners.

Running Order:

• 00:09 – Why most of us struggle with conversations
• 01:06 – Introductions - Scott Walker: hostage negotiator turned leadership coach
• 02:25 – Negotiation as purposeful conversation
• 03:51 – What pirates and teenagers have in common
• 05:06 – Assumptions: the expensive earplugs blocking real communication
• 06:45 – The three types of conversation: practical, emotional, and identity-driven
• 11:32 – When your identity feels under threat
• 12:25 – Regulating your emotions under pressure
• 13:53 – Scott’s first major mistake — and the colleague who saved him
• 15:58 – Managing emotional triggers: observe, don’t absorb
• 20:14 – Better conversations start with better self-awareness
• 21:55 – “Pause. Reflect. Choose.” — a technique for staying grounded
• 25:27 – The importance of practising calm before you need it
• 29:14 – Taking ownership of your emotions (and outcomes)
• 30:06 – How to deal with difficult people (egos, narcissists, manipulators)
• 32:22 – Trump vs Zelensky: a lesson in how not to have a conversation
• 35:30 – Warmth cues, head tilts, and how we signal we’re listening
• 37:02 – Scott’s “antennae” approach to reading the room
• 40:14 – Why better conversations start in your body (Paws. Toes. Antennae.)
• 42:10 – Trust as the cornerstone of any successful negotiation
• 43:49 – When the relationship matters more than the outcome
• 45:35 – The five levels of listening — and why most people never get past level two
• 48:50 – Why what and how questions are better than why
• 52:16 – The power of silence (and why we find it so uncomfortable)
• 53:08 – How to sound human, not robotic
• 55:22 – How to negotiate under pressure — in real time
• 57:03 – Scott’s parting advice: ditch the excuses, do the work

Links

> Scott’s books – Eye of The Storm (out 8 May 2025) and Order Out of Chaos can be purchased here: https://amzn.eu/d/5T0dasf

> Thrive under pressure course - May 20 thriveunderpressure.co.

> Sign up for Scott’s newsletter here: https://winanynegotiation.com/pages/contact

> Follow Scott on