In this episode, we talk about Miranda July’s award-winning, “wild, sexy, shocking” autofictional novel, All Fours. While this book isn’t banned, it’s been getting a lot of attention—and we had to find out why. We loved its unhinged glory.

All Fours explores relationships, marriage, midlife, identity, motherhood, and a surprising theme: menopause.

Listen in as we also dive into current fashion trends (yes, jorts!), car shopping, and campus tours.

It’s our first full episode, and we’re so excited! Today, Carey and Deb discuss Oryx and Crake, Margaret Atwood’s 2003 dystopian novel that has been banned at the state level in public schools. But why? That’s what we set out to find.

Grab a coffee—or your favorite beverage—and listen in!

We’ll also dive into Carey’s obsession with pre-ordering books. How much has she spent? And will we read the second book in Atwood’s MaddAddam trilogy? You’ll have to listen to find out.

Off the Shelves is a new podcast with Carey Van Wagoner & Debbie Farka where we invite you in to our conversations about books, kids, careers, life, and anything that's on our minds.

In each episode, we will explore a recent read, catch up on daily events of life, share favorite things and tackle the age old dilemma of what's for dinner. We promise you'll laugh and learn with us. Pour yourself a cup of coffee and join in, we're glad you're here.

New episodes drop every two weeks on Tuesday.