What is the threshold over which PEM is induced in chronic illness? This is a hugely important question for sufferers, and one for which Rob Wüst is trying to find an answer.

Assistant Professor in Musculoskeletal Health and Physiology at the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam, Dr. Rob Wüst is able to see the physiological impact of Long Covid and ME/CFS in skeletal muscle abnormalities.

In his latest study (currently in preprint) he finds that “Skeletal muscle properties in long COVID and ME/CFS differ from those induced by bed rest”, and the abnormalities that he observes in the muscles of this cohort of patients correlate with the Post-Exertional Malaise (PEM), autonomic dysfunction and wearable data that he gathered in another recent study.

In this week’s episode Wüst explains to Emily Kate Stephens how he observed exercise-induced worsening of symptoms in almost half of Long Covid patients when they exceeded their ‘ventilatory threshold’ but the much of the time this is from everyday activities such as hanging the laundry or carrying the groceries. But they discus

He discusses the physiological clues emerging from exercise testing and muscle biopsies in patients when viewed alongside wearable data and expounds on the circulating theories on this, including mitochondrial dysfunction, local hypoxia, and ion channel abnormalities. And he explores the parallels and distinctions between Long Covid and ME/CFS and why interdisciplinary collaboration is vital to unlock these complex, multi-systemic diseases.

The Impact of Bedrest Study 2024

Skeletal muscle adaptations and PEM in LC 2024

Should we be careful with exercise in PEM in LC? 2025

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This week’s episode takes us on an exploration of the exciting work coming out of M.I.T’s Biological Engineering teams into understanding infection-associated illnesses and the emerging field of menstruation science.

Emily Kate Stephens is joined by Dr Michal Caspi Tal, Principal Scientist of the Tal Research Group and Associate Scientific Director at the Center for Gynepathology Research. She is responsible for innovative research seeking answers about the the overlap between infection, immune dysregulation, and chronic illness; alongside working to break menstrual taboos, creating a scientific framework for understanding the implications of the female reproductive system on our health and our sickness

Her lab has launched MIT MAESTRO study, a groundbreaking research initiative using leading edge technology, aimed at uncovering the links between infection-associated illness, immune dysregulation and mitochondrial dysfunction, juxtaposing Long Covid against acute and Chronic Lyme. The team study the way in which pathogens interact with the immune system, genetics, and each other to create overlaps with POTS, MCAS, gynaecological conditions and connective tissue disorders such as hEDS.

The Tal Research Group is working to bridge engineering and biology to fill critical research gaps— particularly around chronic illnesses such as endometriosis, acute and chronic Lyme disease, Long Covid & ME/CFS. Their work is developing predictive diagnostics and illness trajectory maps to help us understand who is at risk of developing infection-associated chronic conditions, and why.

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A new clinical trial is underway to test a monoclonal antibody as a treatment for Long Covid.

In this week’s episode Emily Kate Stephens sits down with Dr Nancy Klimas at Nova Southeastern University (NSU), Florida, to discuss the trial alongside the groundbreaking research and integrative care, that is taking place at the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine, looking at Long Covid, ME/CFS and other complex conditions.

The trial, a collaboration between Nova Southeastern University and the Schmidt Initiative for Long Covid, will use an AstraZeneca drug, which is already approved for COVID-19 prevention in those with compromised immunity, on 100 patients in a double-blind, randomised controlled trail. And Dr Klimas, a globally recognized expert in immunology and chronic illness, believes that this has the potential to be a curative treatment for the disease in around 40% of patients.

Alongside this new study, we discuss the role of computational modelling and the progress that AI is having in uncovering hidden patterns in chronic disease; the way in which gender differences shape inflammatory responses and treatment strategies; and the critical importance of restorative sleep, nutrition, and anti-inflammatory approaches in improving the lives of patients.

We discuss some of the other studies in which the INIM are involved – the Reboot Study, Microbiome research, probiotics, and the COVIDUP study, along with the power of international collaboration, the challenges of funding and the amazing contribution of patients.

Dr. Nancy Klimas is Director of the Institute for Neuro-Immune Medicine at NSU, and a leading voice in translational research focused on chronic illness, ME/CFS, Gulf War Syndrome, and Long Covid. With decades of experience in immunology and clinical science, Dr. Klimas is a champion for an integrative, personalized approach to patient care.

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