Luckin Coffee is a massive concept based in China that is widely regarded as Starbucks’ chief global rival, although it just recently arrived in the United States.

Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business and co-host of Menu Talk, checked out one of the two New York locations, ordered a pineapple-and-coconut drink, and gave her impressions of the place: The drink was tasty, and the venue was small and takeout-focused.

Co-host Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, also had a busy week of trying food and beverage, including participating in a pastrami taste test.

David Burke, celebrity chef and inventor many years ago of salmon pastrami, has a new traditional pastrami at his restaurant Park Avenue Kitchen. He thought it was pretty good, so he invited restaurateurs, food writers, including Bret, influencers, etc. to come to the restaurant and do a blind tasting against the big-name NYC pastrami purveyors, including Sarge’s, 2nd Avenue Deli, Katz’s, and Carnegie Deli.

Whose pastrami won? Listen to this week’s podcast and find out.

And also listen to Bret’s interview with Tyler Florence, chef-owner of Wayfare Tavern, which recently relocated in San Francisco, and Miller & Lux, with locations in San Francisco and Hawaii. Florence shares his thoughts on the post-pandemic evolution of San Francisco, and why he limits his own celebrity chef persona at his restaurants.

Menu launches haven’t slowed down coming off the July 4 holiday weekend. Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality spotted many new items this week.

The beverage category continues to see a lot of action. Bret pointed out Starbucks’ release of a super limited-time Fireworks Frappuccino, a blend of their berry refresher with coconut milk and raspberry pearls topped with strawberry puree and sweet cream cold foam. And Buffalo Wild Wings launched a Mountain Dew Radler combining the branded soft drink and Goose Island beer. There are also new mocktails from Dutch Bros, a prickly pear refresher at Whataburger and a margarita menu upgrade at Condado Tacos.

From sauces to barbecue, our guest this week is Haim Asher, VP of culinary at Lucille's Smokehouse Bar-B-Que, a California-based restaurant with 19 locations. Lucille’s has a smoker in each location, where menu favorites like ribs and brisket cook low and slow. But the menu also offers other Southern specialties, including deviled eggs, the best-selling appetizer. Listen as Chef Asher describes how Lucille’s is keeping up with barbecue’s evolution in the U.S. while honoring its legacy.

Much of the country suffered from a punishing heat wave last week, including New York City, where Menu Talk co-hosts Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, both live.

Earlier in the week, Bret went to Chili’s launch of three new premium frozen Margaritas, made with Patrón tequila, that was held in a heavily air-conditioned room appropriate not just for the beverages, but also for the unearthly temperatures outside (Bret joked that he felt like he was being poached).

Pat discussed an interview with the corporate chef of California Pizza Kitchen about that chain’s new salads, which led to a broader discussion about salad, and about pizza and whether pineapple belongs on it. Bret also pointed out that Mountain Mike’s now has a Hawaiian-themed pizza with mango, something neither co-host can recall seeing on pizza before.

Next they shared observations about unexpected flavors at chains outside the United States, and Bret went on a tangent about the polarizing tropical fruit durian, which he said tastes like sweetened onion and garlic, but not necessarily in a bad way.

Finally, he introduced John Burns Paterson, the co-owner and operator of Frankies Nashville — an offshoot of the Brooklyn, New York, restaurants of that name. Enjoy the interview.

Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, recorded Menu Talk from Boston, where he checked out some of the city’s restaurants and took a short oyster tasting tour. He stayed at the Lenox Hotel, where Willow & Ivy is the on-premise restaurant.

The two editors also talked about the surge in shakes, beverages and desserts inspired by the TikTok-famous Dubai Chocolate Bar. The viral sensation is impacting menus at Shake Shack, Nick the Greek, Paris Baguette and other concepts, which have recently rolled out items with a combo of chocolate, pistachio cream and kataifi (crisp shreds of toasted phyllo dough)—all components of the chocolate bar.

We then shared an interview with Laura Camerer, senior manager of culinary, supply chain & facilities for Chicago-based Protein Bar & Kitchen. Protein is in high demand, and this fast casual incorporates the nutrient into many menu items as well as its name. Listen as Chef Camerer describes how she recently expanded the menu with eight smoothies and bowls while adding just two new ingredients to the pantry, and how steak is figuring into her next menu launch.

Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, joined the podcast fresh off of a trip to Las Vegas where he attended Starbucks’ Leadership Experience 2025, where 14,000 managers from the coffeehouse chain, as well as its top executives and other leaders, gathered to reinvigorate the brand, which has faced declining sales for the past year, making it an outlier in the otherwise booming coffeehouse segment.

Bret shared some of Starbucks’ latest operational initiatives and discussed some of the new menu items he tried, including a layered “strato” Frappuccino, and a raspberry croissant, which he said was a foreshadowing of the raspberry syrup that was being brought back this summer.

Pat shared her observations of the latest trendy items of the week, including mocktails at Einstein Bros Bagels, tortilla-crusted chicken strips at Taco Bell, and a variety of new ranch dressings — both Taco Bell and Chipotle have new avocado ranch sauces — and seasonal barbecue-themed items. That led to a conversation between the two hosts about the proliferation of sauces, which are highly impactful in terms of taste and fairly easy to use operationally, both important factors in these times of expensive labor and declining traffic.

Then Bret shared his interview with Jonathon Sawyer, chef of Kindling Downtown Cookout & Cocktails, a restaurant in Chicago’s Willis Tower.

McDonald’s had been teasing the return of its chicken Snack Wraps on social media, but Popeyes beat them to the punch with the launch of similar wraps of their own.

That was the big menu news this week that was discussed by hosts Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality.

Bret disdained the term “chicken wars” to describe the scenario: It’s the sale of food to customers, which in no way resembles the horrors of war. Nonetheless, people do enjoy referring to the situation that wy, so there you have it.

In other food news, several chains rolled out cookies this week, including a new lemon cookie from Jimmy John’s, chocolate chip cookies enrobing Reese’s Peanut Butter Cups and Oreos from Great American Cookies and an Espresso Martini-inspired cookie at Chip City Cookies that was only available for the June 6-7 weekend. There were also several beverage introductions of note, particularly Starbucks’ new Iced Horchata Oatmilk Shaken Espresso.

Then the co-hosts discussed the trend of pizza regionalization, particularly Connecticut’s push to attract New Yorkers to the suburbs to try that state’s coal-fired pies. That led them to Pat’s interview with Bret Lunsford, executive chef and culinary director of Sally’s Apizza, a small chain based in Connecticut, who has expanded the menu with creative pizza toppings, salads, and more. Give a listen.

Peaches, guava and Persian flavors are trending on menus this week, according to Pat Cobe, senior menu editor of Restaurant Business, and Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, co-hosts of the Menu Talk podcast.

Bret observed that peach-themed drinks are making a comeback this summer. Chick-fil-A returned its Peach Milkshake for the 16th year and added a new Peach Frosted Lemonade, and Pat reported that Piada Italian Street Food, a much smaller chain, launched a cooling Peach Basil Fresca.

The beverage side of the menu continues to be a hotbed of innovation. Guava, a less-familiar fruit in the U.S., is moving into the mainstream. Bret pointed out that Dunkin’ introduced a guava, orange and passion fruit refresher, and A&W has a guava, orange and passion fruit freeze on the menu.

On the casual-dining front, Texas Roadhouse just rolled out a line of tropical-flavored mocktails, the chain’s first foray into zero-proof cocktails.

We mentioned previously how pistachio is getting more play in both food and drinks, and Pat noted that Nick the Greek is highlighting the flavor in a frozen yogurt dessert later this summer. It’s called Pistachio Cream “Dubai Chocolate” Froyo and is a takeoff on the decadent Dubai Chocolate Bar that is a viral sensation on TikTok. Which spurred a discussion on whether frozen yogurt is making a comeback. Tune in to find out.

Persian food seems to be emerging as a Middle Eastern niche, even in fast casual. Dig teamed up with a Persian-American content creator to put a Sumac Yogurt and Chicken Plate on the menu, and halvah is flavoring coffee at The Caffe by Mr. Espresso.

Danny Grant, chef-partner in Maple Hospitality Group.

Our guest this week is Danny Grant, chef-partner in Maple Hospitality Group, which operates three Maple & Ash Steakhouses in Chicago, Scottsdale and Miami. The newest in Miami has in-house dry-aging equipment and offers the Sundae Tower, an extravagant shareable dessert inspired by Grant’s mom. Listen as he shares the secrets behind Maple & Ash’s signatures and his passion for all things culinary.

Bret and guest co-host Heather Lally discuss the latest food and beverage trends and share an interview with Susan Bae, executive pastry chef of Moon Rabbit in Washington, D.C.

With the National Restaurant Show in the rearview mirror, Bret Thorn, senior food & beverage editor of Nation’s Restaurant News and Restaurant Hospitality, welcomed a guest co-host to the podcast, Heather Lally, managing editor of sister publications Restaurant Business, Supermarket News, and CSP Daily News.

With an expert in the retail space joining the show, Bret and Heather discussed the increasing presence of drinks made with cannabis in that channel. There was also an entire section at the Restaurant Show dedicated to those drinks, with both hosts visited with enthusiasm, and Heather also sat in on a presentation on the potentially thorny legal issues around cannabis, regulations of which vary from state to state.

They also discussed some of the plant-based options at the show, which are of particular importance to Heather, who’s a pescatarian. Often the meatless options she’s presented with at meals, though tasty, tend to lack protein, being made with ingredients such as cauliflower and mushrooms.

Then Bret shared an interview with Susan Bae, the executive pastry chef of Moon Rabbit, a Vietnamese-inspired restaurant in Washington, D.C.