If God chooses the foolish things to shame the wise, then what does that say about me? According to Pastor Jordan Wall, it’s actually pretty simple. In this episode Jordan shares how his story formed a simple approach to his ministry, regardless of the assignment, and how that shifts the fluctuations of ministry from targets to dashboards. Simple.

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• Connect further with Jordan at revitalizechurch.life

Guest Bio:

Jordan Wall is a husband and father of four, with over 20 years of experience in full-time ministry. Throughout his journey, he has served in a variety of roles—including NextGen, Operations, and Worship Pastor—before planting Revitalize Church in Kalamazoo, MI, where he now serves as Senior Pastor. Jordan is passionate about seeing lives transformed through the local church. When he's not preaching or leading, you’ll likely find him enjoying his favorite foods—fried chicken, tacos, and pizza (with salads in between)—or dreaming about one day traveling to space.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

Statistically, the number of ministry leaders struggling with their identity, calling and confidence in ministry is growing, and they are feeling more and more isolated. In this episode, Pastor and Executive Director Johnny McCallister unpacks how ministry leaders need each other more than ever before. Johnny shares keys for resiliency learned from over 30 years of ministry, tools for ministering to others, and what it looks like to allow yourself to be ministered to as well.

We also discover that Johnny & Chad have the same sandwich order, which of course means they’re now best friends–Enjoy this one!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• The Resilient Pastor: Leading Your Church in a Rapidly Changing World by Glenn Packiam
• Barna: The State of Pastors Summit
• Connect further with Johnny via Pastors in Prayer Website

Guest Bio:

Johnny Mac is the Executive Director of Pastors in Prayer. Pastors in Prayer is a transformative non-profit ministry dedicated to engaging, encouraging, and equipping pastors from various denominations to thrive in their ministry. Leveraging Johnny's 34 years of experience and wisdom in pastoral leadership, Pastors in Prayer aims to provide valuable resources, support, and mentorship to pastors of all ages. Pastors in Prayer seeks to add value to pastors' lives and ministries, ultimately impacting the Kingdom of God.

Johnny McCallister is the former senior pastor at the First Church of God, where he served for over 13 years. Before that, Johnny served as an Associate Pastor for 18 years, focusing on Student Ministry in his home state of WV and in Fort Wayne. Johnny has been married to Sherrie McCallister for 36 years. Over the years, Sherrie has been instrumental in partnering in many aspects of ministry experience. They have four children: Victoria, the Director of Development at YMCA of Greater Fort Wayne. Brianna works as a Kindergarten Teacher in the Fort Wayne School District; Silas is a senior at Indiana University Kelly School of Business; and Beckett is a sophomore at Carroll High School.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.

How does knowing who you’ve been created to be as a leader directly impact your effectiveness in discipling others? Pastor and denominational leader, Beth Hackbarth, sits down for a conversation with us to share how her own journey of self-discovery opened up a new level for her in leading others. In this episode, we also talk about what the long game of developing people and leaders in our care looks like, and the impacts of being less loosy-goosy and more strategic in our approach to disciple formation.

We may have also created a spin-off podcast for Brenton & Beth about homesteading. Time will tell–check this one out!

Resources Highlighted in this Interview:

• To connect further with Beth at, the Foursquare Central District, her FB page or at bhackbarth@foursquare.org
• Foursquare “Discover” Resources
• Younique - Personal Calling Training

Guest Bio:

Beth Hackbarth is passionate about trailblazing the capacity of people and organizations by pioneering pathways for optimum impact.

With over two decades of experience in ministry, Beth has worn many hats, including Co-Lead Pastor, Worship Pastor, Youth Pastor, Leadership Development Director, Communications and Creative Arts Director, and most recently, as Associate Supervisor for the Central District of Foursquare Churches. In this role, she provides oversight, development, and care to 1,200 pastors across 275 churches in a 17-state region.

Beth holds a bachelor’s degree from Life Pacific University and will be graduating with her master’s degree in Leadership and Culture from George Fox University (Portland Seminary) in May 2025.

For 18 years, Beth has been married to her best friend and ministry partner, Ben. Together, they are raising three children—Analeigh (15), Malachi (13), and Judah (11)—on a homestead in northeastern Colorado. Outside of their busy ministry life, they love fishing, hunting, hiking, backpacking, and spending long summer days at the lake.

Episode Credits:

Audio Engineer & Editing by AJ Williams

Produced by Chad Garrison

Connect With Ministry w/o Hating It:
Our LinkTree | Support MWH @ Buy Me A Coffee
Thanks for listening! If this podcast is a helpful resource to you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review and sharing it with others.