Last week’s episode from the ancient Great House of Pueblo Bonito in Chaco Canyon, New Mexico, left something out. Before my guest Dana Scott and I headed back to the car, we went back towards the entrance and plaza, because I couldn’t pass up the opportunity to talk about how Dana’s path has arrived at a transformational restorative justice approach to education, how that evolved from our time in Guatemala together, and how being at Chaco relates to it all.

We quipped at the outset that this could be another podcast, and really, it was. I hope you enjoy it.

And for those of you who enjoyed the conversation with Jenny Finn at Springhouse Community School, it was Dana, through Dwanna (who you’ll hear about here) who introduced us.

I’ll share more photos of our visit to Chaco, in addition to those appearing on the website, with paid subscribers today also, with great thanks for making all this possible.

Recorded 15 April 2025.

Title slide photo by Olivia Cheng.

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Chauen, Angel Salazar (sourced from Artlist).

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

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This episode was made during one of the most extraordinary experiences of my life. It happened in a place that’s been called the most important site in the world. Lynne Kelly said that, co-author of Songlines, and my guest in the extremely popular episode 92. She said it in a call with filmmaker Anna Sofaer and I a little after this was recorded. Anna has made a series of extraordinary films about this place, as founder of The Solstice Project.

The place is called Chaco Canyon, located in the heart of New Mexico, and at the centre of the ancient Chacoan civilisation. This World Heritage site is still so little known, and at a time when its mysteries, prophesies and conscious transformations are so relevant to us today.

So this episode comes to you from the centrepiece of the centrepiece – the greatest of the Great Houses, Pueblo Bonito. I’m joined there by Dana Scott, a great old mate from our time in Guatemala a quarter of a century ago, highly accomplished educator and counsellor, and newish subscriber to the podcast too. Some of you may remember reading about him in a piece on Substack while we were in Philadelphia last year, as the Scott family invited us along to their old haunt. We’d been spending time with them in their current haunt in Baltimore, when it was revealed we had a long-standing mutual calling to Chaco Canyon. So we resolved to meet there.

Dana and I peeled off in golden twilight one evening to share some of our transformational experience of the place. This includes some deeply personal and crazily uncanny links. But as we say in the conversation, there is so much to this story and place. So if you, like us, find yourself fascinated with it all, do go to the sources we talk about - the tribes, researchers and of course what lies beyond.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 15 April 2025. (Intro recorded in the car at camp)

Title slide: the view during this conversation (pic: Anthony James).

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

For those keen to hear about Old Salt Festival, I’ve sent an initial missive with photos to paid subscribers on Patreon and Substack, and I’ll have more for you all soon.

Music:

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Footage of Mercedes Sosa singing Cuando Tenga la Tierra, following Solo Le Pido a Dios.

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The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

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In last week’s episode with Dr Jann Hayman, winding up our series from the Osage Nation, I mentioned we’d just been on a tour of their astounding Greenhouse. The woman who kindly gave us that tour, Dawn Wormington, had been recruited for the job by the Osage. And in this brief bonus to the Osage series, we hear from Dawn about the unexpected, unintended gift that keeps on giving, out of the filming of Killers of the Flower Moon.

If you happen to have come to the Osage series here first, you can hear my brief scene-setting introductory episode to the series with filmmaker Nicol Ragland here, my conversation with Chief Standing Bear here, and subsequent conversation with Dr Jann Hayman here (recommended in sequence).

I’ll share more photos of our visit, in addition to those appearing on the website, with paid subscribers this week.

Recorded 4 April 2025.

Title slide: AJ & Dawn astride the pineapples in the greenhouse (pic: Nicol Ragland).

See more photos on the website, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Music by Jeremiah Johnson.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

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Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Dr. Jann Hayman is Secretary of Natural Resources for the Osage Nation. We’ve just come from a tour of their astounding greenhouse, after having had a powerful conversation with Chief Standing Bear. Jann’s graciously welcomed filmmaker Nicol Ragland and I for a chat at her office, amidst her busy end of the week. Both Chief and Nicol sing Jann’s praises loudly. Nicol calls her a powerhouse. And when she won the award from which I drew the title image for this episode, the presenter said ‘if you haven’t been to Pawhuska to see [their] facilities, you need to!’

This continues our special series from Osage Nation HQ, in Pawhuska Oklahoma. Today, we speak with Jann about how the Nation is going about its masterful resurgence, on the ground. Jann was Director of Environment and Natural Resources when the Tribe mobilised much of its recent food sovereignty and related achievements. In the wake of that, she was asked onto Chief’s Cabinet.

This conversation picks up from Chief’s, as we flesh out the realities of those achievements, including their remarkable land re-acquisition and food sovereignty measures, related buffalo restoration, broader wildlife too, language innovation, trust-based funding, reconnecting with the elders, and building a systemic movement. We hear, too, how all this is impacting people, and what big ideas are next. And again, this is a very frank, inspiring, and fun yarn. With a deeply moving story and piece of music, played by Jann, to close.

If you happen to have come to the Osage series here first, you can hear my chat with Chief Standing Bear last week, and the brief scene-setting episode with Nicol, the week prior (if you’re not familiar with the back story on this one, it’s worth ducking back to listen to that 13 minutes with Nicol first).

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 4 April 2025. (Intro recorded at Greens Lake, Utah)

Title slide source.

More photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

As introduced last week, we’re about to have a very special meeting with Chief Standing Bear of the Osage Nation. The family and I made our way with friend and filmmaker Nicol Ragland to Osage HQ in Pawhuska, Oklahoma. How the Osage survived being marched to these lands by the US government in the 19th century, and ongoing brutality in the 20th, is a scene set in last week’s episode (if you’re not familiar with that back story, it’s worth ducking back to listen to that brief 13 minute episode first).

We pick up the Osage story in the 21st century, where they’re mapping a masterful resurgence including the rare reclamation of land, the powerful realisation of food sovereignty, the innovative return of language, and so much more.

As mentioned in the introductory episode last week, some of you might recognise the Osage Nation from the recent Martin Scorsese film, Killers of the Flower Moon. The Chief’s early reference to their extraordinary Academy Awards live performance relates to that.

Join me with Chief Standing Bear, for a fascinating, frank, fun and generous insight into the Osage Nation, his role, and their resurgence.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 4 April 2025. (Intro recorded by the Colorado River at camp in Castle Valley, Utah.)

Title slide: The Chief, from the Nation’s website.

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Welcome to the launch of a very special series from a very special visit to the Osage Nation. Some of you might recognise the Osage Nation from the recent Martin Scorsese film, Killers of the Flower Moon (have a look at this awesome live performance at the Oscars). Or from the book that was based on, by David Grann. Or indeed, from the podcast series, In Trust. They’ve all done a heck of a job bringing to new light and new generations what was done to the Osage back in 1920s Oklahoma. In this series, we follow the story of the Osage in the 2020s – mapping a masterful resurgence of land reclamation, food sovereignty, the return of language, and so much more.

Our privilege was to share time with Chief Standing Bear, and later the Nation’s Secretary of Natural Resources, Dr Jann Hayman. The stories and work of both are captivating, moving and often astounding.

To set the scene for us first is the person who introduced us, friend and filmmaker Nicol Ragland. You might remember Nicol as director of the very first Farmers Footprint film, among many others. Or episode 80 on this podcast. Well, four years since that podcast, after we moved on from last week’s incredible story in Texas, we met Nicol for the first time in person at her home in Oklahoma City. And after we’d visited the Osage together, we headed out to Nicol’s farm. That’s its own story. For this episode though, I asked if she’d share some of the story of her unlikely return to her roots in Oklahoma, and how only then did she start to learn of its deeper stories.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 8 April 2025.

Title slide: Nicol at her farm (pic: Anthony James).

For more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Beginning & ending music by Jeremiah Johnson.

Stones & Bones, by Owls of the Swamp.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

Christopher Brown is a celebrated science-fiction writer and decorated lawyer (and once co-hosted a punk rock radio show). His newest book, however, is described as a ‘genre-defying work of nature writing, literary nonfiction, and memoir that explores what happens when nature and the city intersect … [challenging] our assumptions of nature itself.’ It’s called A Natural History of Empty Lots: Field Notes from Urban Edgelands, Back Alleys and other Wild Places.

The blurb of its publisher Timber Press, an imprint of Hachette, puts it like this:

'During the real estate crash of the late 2000s, Christopher Brown purchased an empty lot in an industrial section of Austin, Texas. The property—a brownfield site bisected with an abandoned petroleum pipeline and littered with concrete debris and landfill trash—was an unlikely site for a home. Along with his son, Brown had explored similar empty lots around Austin, “ruined” spaces once used for agriculture and industry awaiting their redevelopment as Austin became a 21st century boom town.

'He discovered them to be teeming with natural activity, and embarked on a twenty-year project to live in and document such spaces. There, in our most damaged landscapes, he witnessed the remarkable resilience of wild nature, learned how easy it is to bring back the wild in our own backyards, and discovered that, by working to heal the wounds we have made on the Earth, we can also heal ourselves. Beautifully written and philosophically hard-hitting, [it] offers a new lens on human disruption and nature, offering a sense of hope among the edgelands.'

As soon as I received this book, I immediately invited Chris onto the podcast. And to my delight, he and his family were happy to have us drop by. So while our wives worked and kids played, Chris and I explored what he’s called their ‘little house on the petroleum prairie’, and just how he navigated a serendipitous path, through personal and global travails, to a portal of healing, regeneration and more than a little magic.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 30 March 2025.

Title slide: Chris holds a tell-tale sign, in front of the house you can barely discern from all the lush greenery there now (pic: Anthony James).

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Music:

Silhouettes, by Muted (sourced from Artlist).

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

The RegenNarration playlist, music chosen by guests.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!

It was difficult trying to choose the opening quote for this week's episode. My guest Lorenzo Washington articulated a handful of beautiful passages. So I thought I'd put the 'short list', as it were, together here. Let's call it a preview of ep.259, The Jefferson Street Sound: Preserving Nashville's Soul with Lorenzo Washington. One of my favourites.

Title slide: Lorenzo and I outside the Museum after our chat (pic: Olivia Cheng).

See more photos on the episode website, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Send us a text

Support the show

The RegenNarration podcast is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. If you too value what you hear, please consider joining them.

Become a paid subscriber to connect with your host, other listeners and exclusive benefits, on Patreon or the new Substack.

Or donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

You can also visit The RegenNarration shop. And share, rate and review the podcast.

Thanks for your support!