Award-winning artist, animator, and game designer Michael Frei joins Nate and Joseph to share his creative journey from apprentice construction draftsman to co-founder of Zurich’s Playable, the indie studio behind critically acclaimed interactive works like Plug & Play, Kids, and the meditative mortality sim Time Flies.

Michael breaks down his minimalist approach to game design—how stripping away noise can lead to emotional clarity—and explains why humor, absurdity, and interaction are central to his artistic voice. He reflects on transitioning from animation to games, his fascination with weird player dynamics, and why making something personally meaningful matters more than chasing trends.

Frei also shares lessons from testing, iterating, and publishing across platforms, as well as advice for aspiring indie creators navigating simplicity, success, and staying creatively grounded in a crowded market.

Check out Michael Frei's Resources:
https://michaelfrei.io/
https://x.com/panic
https://bsky.app/profile/michaelfrei.io
https://www.instagram.com/michaelfrei10/

Games Mentioned:
FIFA - Michael's favorite game to play
Glider
Not About Us
Plug and Play
Time Flies
Windowsill
Feet Ahead

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• (00:00) - Introduction to the Podcast
• (00:22) - Meet Michael Frei: The Minimalist Game Designer
• (01:11) - Michael's Gaming Preferences and FIFA
• (02:45) - The Origin of 'Time Flies'
• (04:42) - Early Inspirations and Programming
• (06:04) - From Construction Draftsman to Animation
• (08:49) - Transition to Interactive Art and Games
• (14:20) - Principles of Minimalist Game Design
• (15:55) - Animation Style and Player Interaction
• (18:12) - Defining Success and Monetization in Games
• (21:22) - User Testing and Feedback
• (22:51) - The Iterative Process of Animation
• (23:11) - The Creative Journey Behind 'Cars'
• (25:13) - Designing for Different Consoles
• (27:59) - Advice for Aspiring Indie Game Developers
• (30:26) - The Art of Drafting and Line Art
• (34:01) - Inspiration and Influences
• (40:38) - The Making of 'Time Flies'
• (43:13) - Where to Find More About the Creator

Check out our brainy games:

Sumplete - https://sumplete.com
Squeezy - https://imsqueezy.com/
Kakuro Conquest - https://kakuroconquest.com
Mathler - https://mathler.com
Crosswordle - https://crosswordle.com
Sudoku Conquest - https://sudokuconquest.com
Hitori Conquest - https://hitoriconquest.com
Wordga - https://wordga.com

Pete Muller is not your average guest—he’s a quant hedge fund legend, a touring singer-songwriter, and a prolific puzzle constructor whose creations appear in The New York Times and The Washington Post. In this episode we dive into Pete’s polymath life: his journey from math to markets, from poker tables to music stages, and how puzzles tie it all together. We also discuss his latest creation, the “Think Twice” puzzle, and what drives him to keep solving, creating, and performing. Whether you love games, music, or stories about reinvention, this conversation will surprise and inspire.

Check out Pete's Resources:
https://petespuzzleplayground.com/
https://www.petemuller.com/
https://www.forbes.com/profile/peter-muller/
https://www.youtube.com/@PeteMullerMusic/featured
https://www.pdtpartners.com/

Games Mentioned:
Poker - Pete's favorite game to play
Crosswords
Variety cryptics
Bridge
Chess
Ping pong
Ultimate Frisbee
Blackjack
Wordle
Letter Boxed
Stray Cat Strut
Meta Puzzle
Scrabble
Sudoku
Spelling Bee
KenKen

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• (00:00) - Introduction to Pete Muller: A Modern Polymath
• (01:58) - Pete's Favorite Games and Puzzles
• (03:39) - From Poker to Quantitative Trading
• (06:05) - The Evolution of PDT Partners
• (10:34) - Balancing Music and Finance
• (13:13) - The Art of Puzzle Creation
• (20:20) - Meta Puzzles and Musical Connections
• (24:42) - Introducing the Mini Meta Puzzle
• (25:49) - Creating and Testing the Mini Meta
• (27:11) - The Think Twice Puzzle Concept
• (28:49) - Developing the Think Twice App
• (30:58) - Scoring and User Engagement
• (36:20) - Puzzle Addiction and Mental Workouts
• (39:44) - Mindfulness and Avoiding Burnout
• (41:30) - Hosting and Community Involvement
• (45:21) - The Future of AI in Puzzles
• (47:32) - Final Thoughts and Contact Information

Check out our brainy games:

Sumplete - https://sumplete.com
Squeezy - https://imsqueezy.com/
Kakuro Conquest - https://kakuroconquest.com
Mathler - https://mathler.com
Crosswordle - https://crosswordle.com
Sudoku Conquest - https://sudokuconquest.com
Hitori Conquest - https://hitoriconquest.com
Wordga - https://wordga.com

Indie-game luminary Tatiana Delgado joins Nate to trace her 20-year journey from drawing paper games as a kid to co-founding Madrid’s Out of the Blue Games. She explains how titles like Call of the Sea create emotional tension without combat, why early VR prototyping was both thrilling and nausea-inducing, and how small studios can balance artistic vision with funding realities.

Tatiana also teases two new projects—Lovecraft-flavored sequel Call of the Elder Gods and branching visual-novel series The Vigilante Diaries—while sharing hard-won advice on user testing, team culture, and pitching in today’s crowded market.

Check out Tatiana's Resources:
https://www.outbluegames.com
https://x.com/OutBlueGames
https://x.com/arilea

Games Mentioned:
Portal 2 - Tatiana's favorite game to play
Wonder Boy series
Myst
Riven
Aladdin VR
Warhammer

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• (00:00) - to Call of the Sea
• (00:32) - Tatiana Delgado
• (01:32) - Gaming Journey
• (02:15) - Career and Inspirations
• (10:29) - Out of the Blue Games
• (13:52) - Development Philosophy
• (19:16) - in VR Game Development
• (21:14) - on User Testing and Feedback
• (25:52) - and Ethical Considerations
• (26:50) - and Pricing Strategies
• (31:22) - Projects and Final Thoughts

Check out our brainy games:

Sumplete - https://sumplete.com
Squeezy - https://imsqueezy.com/
Kakuro Conquest - https://kakuroconquest.com
Mathler - https://mathler.com
Crosswordle - https://crosswordle.com
Sudoku Conquest - https://sudokuconquest.com
Hitori Conquest - https://hitoriconquest.com
Wordga - https://wordga.com