Saxon Baltzer, from Huntington Beach California, is a surfer, musician, and skateboarder. And Saxon recently won the National Scholastic Surfing Association Championship. In this episode we discuss the following:

• I’m truly inspired by Saxon’s drive and commitment. Though he started to surf at age two, it was his commitment in high school that set him up for his national championship. Waking up early each weekday to first attend seminary, and then get to the beach, Saxon refined his skill while also learning to surf all kinds of waves. And he was also flexible, willing to focus on long boarding to get on his high school team.
• And what a wild story about his national competition: forgetting his board, borrowing his coach’s, nailing a buzzer beater on Saturday, saying a prayer to find his board, finding it with Dimitri, and then landing another clutch buzzer beater on Sunday for the national championship.
• And most remarkably, Saxon is now giving up surfing for two years and moving across the country to share a gospel message in hopes of helping others.
• As Saxon so perfectly demonstrates, sacrifice, persistence, and passion are key to success.

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Avi Kluger is a professor of Organizational Behavior at Hebrew University of Jerusalem. Avi was born in Tel Aviv to Holocaust survivors and is married with three children. And he is also a grandfather.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• I was touched by Avi’s vulnerability in sharing how listening has saved his life—twice. After his daughter died by suicide, it was the listening community that Avi had cultivated that helped him carry on, even as his pain and sorrow endured. One friend, in particular, asked Avi to recount the last day he spent with his daughter—and then told him she’d listen to that story 100 more times if he needed to.
• Listening saved Avi again during an exercise where he realized he’d spent five years on a project simply to prove a point, rather than because he valued it. That moment launched Avi’s mission to become a better listener every day of his life.
• I was especially intrigued by how Avi doesn’t dwell on people’s listening mistakes. Instead, he helps them discover how to improve. And he extends the same compassion to himself when he falls short. He simply notices and praises his awareness.
• I was impressed by how present Avi was with me, encouraging me to take my time and then referenced earlier parts of our conversation, demonstrating that he truly heard me.
• Because of this conversation, I have adopted Avi’s goal: to become a better listener every day. And because of this interview, Avi will soon be coming to Kansas to teach a listening seminar, and I cannot wait to learn more from him.
• When someone truly listens, it creates a magical space-- a meeting of the minds where ideas emerge that could not have been reached alone.

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Dave Hunsaker is a business professor at Indiana University in the Kelley School of Business where he researches negotiation, teams, and leadership. Dave earned his PhD from the University of Utah and both an MPA and BA from Brigham Young University.

In this episode we discuss the following:

How impressed I am with Dave and Melissa and their ability to face the uncertainty and challenges of moving to China with five kids, something that the system in China is not designed for. From three-hour entrance exams, two-hour daily commutes, and 16-hour days for their children, I can only imagine how difficult this was. And then of course they faced the risk of being separated from their children if any of them ever tested positive for COVID.

And I was especially intrigued by things I learned about China. Getting into a great first grade can be more difficult than getting into college. To reduce the pressure on kindergartners, teaching math was prohibited at schools. But then parents hired tutors to teach math to the kindergartners outside of school, often creating more stress. Many Chinese students are essentially forced to drop out of high school by 9th grade. And Chinese culture doesn’t always reward problem solving so much as it rewards following rules.

Finally I love the lesson Dave shared about what he learned. It’s important to hold off on judgements, because our assumptions about people are often wrong. However, people are generally pretty reasonable once we understand why they’re doing what they’re doing.

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Wendy Smith is an award-winning business professor at the University of Delaware, where she also serves as Co-director of the Women’s Leadership Initiative.

Wendy’s research focuses on strategic paradoxes – how leaders and senior teams effectively respond to contradictory agendas. Her research has been published in top-tier academic journals and her book, Both/And Thinking, was published by Harvard Business School Press in 2022.

Wendy earned her Ph.D. in organizational behavior at Harvard Business School.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• When we view our challenges through an either/or lens, we limit our options, often leading to suboptimal decisions. Both/and thinking, on the other hand, enhances creativity leading to better outcomes.
• Take fairness, for example. Some argue it means treating everyone the same. Others believe it requires treating people differently to ensure comparable outcomes. Both views have merit and represent a classic paradox. And this is where Wendy’s process if helpful. First, notice the paradox, notice the either/or. And then change the frame to see if we can accomplish both. Is there a win/win that allows us to do both right now? I love Wendy’s mule analogy here—the mule, a hybrid of horse and donkey, represents the power of combining two different paths. And if we can’t do both at once, maybe we can do both over time. Wendy’s tightrope metaphor was excellent. A tightrope walker stays balanced by making continuous, slight adjustments as they move forward.
• If we stick to either/or thinking we risk getting trapped, incapable of adapting when context changes.

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Ethan Burris is a senior associate dean in the business school at the University of Texas at Austin, where he is also a professor of management.

Ethan has helped improve operations and employee engagement for several top companies, including Fortune 500 companies in technology, financial services, casual dining, grocery, and retail sectors, along with hospitals, defense contractors, commercial real estate companies, and governmental agencies. He has also acted as a visiting scholar for Microsoft and Google.

Ethan earned a PhD and MS from Cornell University where he worked as a lecturer before joining Texas.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• In order for leaders to consistently make the best decisions, they need access to the best information. But all too often, employees who have that information don’t speak up.
• To get employees to speak up, maybe the most important thing managers can do is proactively reach out and solicit voice. No good manager has ever said they have a closed-door policy. But if we don’t have systems in place that encourage employee voice, our door will feel much more closed to employees than we perceive.
• Simple techniques can help employees speak up. For example, managers can use the two-question, two-word response check in at the beginning of meetings: How are you feeling? What’s going on? This gives people a chance to speak, while also creating an expectation that everyone has something to say.
• Eye contact can also be important. When we give deference to people it signals we trust them and helps them feel like speaking up.
• It’s also important for leaders to be consistent, otherwise it feels risky to speak up.
• Proactively seeking voice comes at a cost. Many of the Type A+ people Ethan consults with feel like some of these things are too touchy feel. Some of the activities also take time that could be spent on other things.
• By proactively seeking out voice, we signal that we value it and increase the odds that we get access to the best information from our employees.

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Peter Kim is a business professor at the University of Southern California where he studies the dynamics of social misperception. His research has been published in numerous scholarly journals, received ten national/international awards, and been featured by the New York Times, Washington Post, and National Public Radio. And while not the focus of this interview, Peter is the author of the book, How Trust Works: The Science of How Relationships Are Built, Broken, and Repaired.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• Rather than follow the traditional path in academia and focus on one specific, well-established research area, Peter pursued topics that were interesting to him. And then over time, Peter was able to see that there was a broad theme that connected his research, even if it wasn’t an off-the-shelf research program.
• Peter realized that he had an inner voice that was guiding him. It wasn’t always clear where he was headed. Listening to his inner voice created challenges for him. But the importance of listening to his inner voice is something that has stuck with him ever since. And it’s something he still revisits to this day, because his inner voice keeps guiding him.
• We can pursue any combination of the things we want that fit with what our inner voice is telling us.

Ryan Fehr is a business professor at the University of Washington, where he teaches courses on leadership and personal change. His research focuses on helping people build more joyful and energizing relationships, with a particular interest in gratitude, compassion, and forgiveness. His work has been featured in news outlets such as the New York Times and Wall Street Journal.

His first book, focused on helping people build the skills they need for joyful, energizing relationships, is scheduled for publication in the Fall.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• As Ryan said, it’s okay to feel burned out by other people sometimes: 72% of parents say they're constantly stressed, 75% said they're too busy to enjoy their lives, and when workers quit, 57% say it's because their relationships are too much.
• Each of us has a different set point for how much alone time we need, so we should be thoughtful about how to cultivate solitude that energizes us.
• For Ryan, cultivating solitude that energizes him means going to movies, restaurants, or even new cities alone. At his daughter’s elementary school, that meant providing a room for students to take a break from the dance and watch a movie.
• Going to networking events can be overwhelming for some people. So a strategy Ryan recommends is to just try to have one meaningful conversation.

Judge Bruce Smith, the first judge to appear on Meikles & Dimes, served as a judge advocate in the United States Air Force for 22 years. After that, he served for more than a decade as an administrative law judge with the United States Department of homeland security. Following his time on the bench, he founded the successful business venture, BartlettJames, LLC, serving as CEO.

In this episode we discuss the following:

• Bruce shared an interesting story about a hospital that was responsible for a child’s death. Rather than lawyer up, the hospital admitted their mistake and took full responsibility. Sadly, in Bruce’s experience as a judge for decades, this sort of accountability is far less common than it should be.
• Saying we screwed up is not a sign of weakness, but rather it’s a sign of strength and character. And speaking of character and ethics, we should follow the law, we should make sure our behavior benefits people and the planet, and we should never do anything that we’d be embarrassed to tell our mothers about.