Kaveh Zamanian is a cool customer.

The founder of Rabbit Hole Distillery, Kaveh’s relaxed personality is immediately apparent. That’s not to say that he hasn’t felt the anxiety and strain of building a brand. As he tells it, Kaveh had spent many nights on his knees “praying to whoever would listen” that his vision for Rabbit Hole would come to fruition.

A former clinical psychologist, Kaveh launched Rabbit Hole in 2012. The distillery’s name is derived from Kaveh’s “passionate descent into the practice of distilling fine spirits,” specifically rye and bourbon. The whiskey is produced in small batches at Rabbit Hole’s state-of-the-art 55,000-square-foot distillery in Louisville, Kentucky, and presented in four core expressions along with the brand’s innovative Founder’s Collection series.

In 2019, French spirits giant Pernod Ricard acquired a majority stake in Rabbit Hole for an undisclosed price. The deal accelerated the brand’s U.S. distribution and helped it expand internationally. Kaveh has continued to helm Rabbit Hole and added a new title – Chief Whiskey Officer at Pernod – in the process.

In this episode, Kaveh talks about how his passion for whiskey became an entrepreneurial journey, how he assembled a team of industry veterans early into the development of the company and why he credits a strong support network as key to his career transition. He also talks about pitching 1,000 investors over the course of two years and how he got 110 to say “yes,” and his current work developing new products and brands, including Mary Dowling Bourbon and Mash & Mallow Whiskey.

Show notes:

0:35: Kaveh Zamanian, Founder, Rabbit Hole Distillery – Kaveh speaks with Taste Radio editor Ray Latif about the Nulu neighborhood of Louisville, where Rabbit Hole is based, the construction and capacity of of its distillery and how his love of wine impacted his foray into whiskey. Kaveh also talks about the bourbon industry’s renaissance over the past decade and how distilling talent, if not funding, was plentiful; why he felt it was important to maintain his job in psychology early into the development of Rabbit Hole; and why he credits a strong support network as key to his career transition. He also explains why building a facility that matched his ambition was critical to his vision for Rabbit Hole, how the company forecasted demand and its capacity for contracting distilling and how he convinced investors with no experience in the spirits industry to back the company. Kaveh also talks about managing anxiety, the key elements of Rabbit Hole’s brand architecture, how he considered an exit strategy while building the company and which decisions he regrets most over the past decade.

Brands in this episode: Rabbit Hole Distillery, Maker’s Mark, Woodford Reserve, Wild Turkey, Nantucket Nectars, Culture Pop, Bardstown Bourbon

It’s another drag for canna-brands. The hosts discuss an emergency regulation in California that would remove food and beverage brands containing hemp-derived THC from stores in the state. They also wonder about the runway for a trendy flavor and highlight several new and unusual products.

Show notes:

0:25: Wine Under A Bridge. London Via San Diego. Explosive Ranch. Is It 1991? Dumplings & Drinks. – We get a debrief from John on his adventures in Copenhagen including sipping natural wine in a rather odd location and perhaps a bit of buyer‘s remorse. The hosts discuss their upcoming travel to California and England and invite listeners to meet up in both places. They also talk about everything bagel seasoning’s 15 minutes of fame and present ranch dressing in a less-than-pleasant light. Mike gets mad about Governor Newsom’s recent regulation and John breaks down the impact of the politician’s actions. They also chat about Ghia’s latest opus, a spicy ramen collaboration and a unique RTD latte.

Brands in this episode: The Laughing Cow, Coffeemate, Foodware, Ghia, Bonbuz, Little Saints, Dixie Grace’s Boiled Peanuts, Bezi, A-Sha, Laurel’s, Magna

At one point during our conversation with Four Sigmatic founder and CEO Tero Isokauppila, he recounts a story about playing golf with the CEO of a large and well-known U.S. retailer. The executive told Tero that Four Sigmatic wouldn’t be successful because of its esoteric brand name.

It’s fair to say that the CEO underestimated the trailblazing company.

Founded in 2012, Four Sigmatic pioneered the now thriving category of mushroom-centric food and beverages. The brand markets a platform of organic ground coffee, protein powders, creamers and supplements that are infused with functional fungi, including reishi, lion’s mane and chaga.

Four Sigmatic’s flagship mushroom coffee is the leading ground coffee on Amazon, and is the anchor for its significant e-commerce business, which represents more than half of its sales. The brand is also represented at major retail chains, including Walmart, Whole Foods, Target, GNC, Albertsons and The Vitamin Shoppe and generates tens of millions of dollars annually.

In this episode, Tero talks about how his personal background as part of the 13th generation of a Finnish farming family influenced his decision to launch Four Sigmatic, navigating an ahead-of-its-time trend, how he overcame “making every mistake a founder can make,” and how the company aligns category insights and innovation.

Show notes:

0:35: Tero Isokauppila, Founder & CEO, Four Sigmatic – Tero and Ray kick things off with a brief chat about Kalsarikännit, a Finnish word with a very strange definition, before the entrepreneur talks about his family’s farm, the reason why children generally avoid mushrooms and whether “sigma” will show up more often in Four Sigmatic social posts. Tero also explains how his parents’ professions influenced his education and created a foundation for his foray into entrepreneurship, why he says “mushrooms chose me,” and how Four Sigmatic addresses consumer skepticism about fungi. He also talks about how the company planned and participated in sampling demos and events early into its development, the impact of sponsoring podcasts in the development of the brand, and how a boom in mushroom-infused food and beverages has affected awareness and misinformation about functional mushrooms. Tero also discusses the evolution of Four Sigmatic’s package design and why the brand emphasizes functionality more than it has in the past, why he doesn’t believe that great packaging is an indicator of potential success for early-stage brands, and why he views his brand’s name as “part of our journey.” He also talks about Four Sigmatic’s success on e-commerce and why the company needs to evaluate its strategy every 6-12 months, his perspective on investing time and resources on Amazon vs. DTC, why he advises new entrepreneurs that when it comes to product development “just do the one thing,” and why he describes category management as “both an art and a science.” Tero also explains how Amazon and Whole Foods are creating a synergistic omnichannel platform and talks about his funding strategy as an angel investor and how price and taste influence his perspective.

Brands in this episode: Four Sigmatic, Annie’s, Once Upon A Farm