Kaveh Zamanian is a cool customer.

The founder of Rabbit Hole Distillery, Kaveh’s relaxed personality is immediately apparent. That’s not to say that he hasn’t felt the anxiety and strain of building a brand. As he tells it, Kaveh had spent many nights on his knees “praying to whoever would listen” that his vision for Rabbit Hole would come to fruition.

A former clinical psychologist, Kaveh launched Rabbit Hole in 2012. The distillery’s name is derived from Kaveh’s “passionate descent into the practice of distilling fine spirits,” specifically rye and bourbon. The whiskey is produced in small batches at Rabbit Hole’s state-of-the-art 55,000-square-foot distillery in Louisville, Kentucky, and presented in four core expressions along with the brand’s innovative Founder’s Collection series.

In 2019, French spirits giant Pernod Ricard acquired a majority stake in Rabbit Hole for an undisclosed price. The deal accelerated the brand’s U.S. distribution and helped it expand internationally. Kaveh has continued to helm Rabbit Hole and added a new title – Chief Whiskey Officer at Pernod – in the process.

In this episode, Kaveh talks about how his passion for whiskey became an entrepreneurial journey, how he assembled a team of industry veterans early into the development of the company and why he credits a strong support network as key to his career transition. He also talks about pitching 1,000 investors over the course of two years and how he got 110 to say “yes,” and his current work developing new products and brands, including Mary Dowling Bourbon and Mash & Mallow Whiskey.

Show notes:

0:35: Kaveh Zamanian, Founder, Rabbit Hole Distillery – Kaveh speaks with Taste Radio editor Ray Latif about the Nulu neighborhood of Louisville, where Rabbit Hole is based, the construction and capacity of of its distillery and how his love of wine impacted his foray into whiskey. Kaveh also talks about the bourbon industry’s renaissance over the past decade and how distilling talent, if not funding, was plentiful; why he felt it was important to maintain his job in psychology early into the development of Rabbit Hole; and why he credits a strong support network as key to his career transition. He also explains why building a facility that matched his ambition was critical to his vision for Rabbit Hole, how the company forecasted demand and its capacity for contracting distilling and how he convinced investors with no experience in the spirits industry to back the company. Kaveh also talks about managing anxiety, the key elements of Rabbit Hole’s brand architecture, how he considered an exit strategy while building the company and which decisions he regrets most over the past decade.

Brands in this episode: Rabbit Hole Distillery, Maker’s Mark, Woodford Reserve, Wild Turkey, Nantucket Nectars, Culture Pop, Bardstown Bourbon

It’s another drag for canna-brands. The hosts discuss an emergency regulation in California that would remove food and beverage brands containing hemp-derived THC from stores in the state. They also wonder about the runway for a trendy flavor and highlight several new and unusual products.

Show notes:

0:25: Wine Under A Bridge. London Via San Diego. Explosive Ranch. Is It 1991? Dumplings & Drinks. – We get a debrief from John on his adventures in Copenhagen including sipping natural wine in a rather odd location and perhaps a bit of buyer‘s remorse. The hosts discuss their upcoming travel to California and England and invite listeners to meet up in both places. They also talk about everything bagel seasoning’s 15 minutes of fame and present ranch dressing in a less-than-pleasant light. Mike gets mad about Governor Newsom’s recent regulation and John breaks down the impact of the politician’s actions. They also chat about Ghia’s latest opus, a spicy ramen collaboration and a unique RTD latte.

Brands in this episode: The Laughing Cow, Coffeemate, Foodware, Ghia, Bonbuz, Little Saints, Dixie Grace’s Boiled Peanuts, Bezi, A-Sha, Laurel’s, Magna

At one point during our conversation with Four Sigmatic founder and CEO Tero Isokauppila, he recounts a story about playing golf with the CEO of a large and well-known U.S. retailer. The executive told Tero that Four Sigmatic wouldn’t be successful because of its esoteric brand name.

It’s fair to say that the CEO underestimated the trailblazing company.

Founded in 2012, Four Sigmatic pioneered the now thriving category of mushroom-centric food and beverages. The brand markets a platform of organic ground coffee, protein powders, creamers and supplements that are infused with functional fungi, including reishi, lion’s mane and chaga.

Four Sigmatic’s flagship mushroom coffee is the leading ground coffee on Amazon, and is the anchor for its significant e-commerce business, which represents more than half of its sales. The brand is also represented at major retail chains, including Walmart, Whole Foods, Target, GNC, Albertsons and The Vitamin Shoppe and generates tens of millions of dollars annually.

In this episode, Tero talks about how his personal background as part of the 13th generation of a Finnish farming family influenced his decision to launch Four Sigmatic, navigating an ahead-of-its-time trend, how he overcame “making every mistake a founder can make,” and how the company aligns category insights and innovation.

Show notes:

0:35: Tero Isokauppila, Founder & CEO, Four Sigmatic – Tero and Ray kick things off with a brief chat about Kalsarikännit, a Finnish word with a very strange definition, before the entrepreneur talks about his family’s farm, the reason why children generally avoid mushrooms and whether “sigma” will show up more often in Four Sigmatic social posts. Tero also explains how his parents’ professions influenced his education and created a foundation for his foray into entrepreneurship, why he says “mushrooms chose me,” and how Four Sigmatic addresses consumer skepticism about fungi. He also talks about how the company planned and participated in sampling demos and events early into its development, the impact of sponsoring podcasts in the development of the brand, and how a boom in mushroom-infused food and beverages has affected awareness and misinformation about functional mushrooms. Tero also discusses the evolution of Four Sigmatic’s package design and why the brand emphasizes functionality more than it has in the past, why he doesn’t believe that great packaging is an indicator of potential success for early-stage brands, and why he views his brand’s name as “part of our journey.” He also talks about Four Sigmatic’s success on e-commerce and why the company needs to evaluate its strategy every 6-12 months, his perspective on investing time and resources on Amazon vs. DTC, why he advises new entrepreneurs that when it comes to product development “just do the one thing,” and why he describes category management as “both an art and a science.” Tero also explains how Amazon and Whole Foods are creating a synergistic omnichannel platform and talks about his funding strategy as an angel investor and how price and taste influence his perspective.

Brands in this episode: Four Sigmatic, Annie’s, Once Upon A Farm

Was Newtopia Now worth a visit? Why are founders flocking to San Diego? Is “Side Hustlers” the new “Shark Tank”? What’s going on with instant noodles? And, is drinking pastrami a real thing? All good questions. The hosts have answers.

Show notes:

0:25: Naked + Famous. Sippin’ In The CPH. Newtopia FOMO. Meet Up. Reese W. Instant Debate. Deli Drink. – Ray and Mike are back after a two-week hiatus and both praise Jacqui on her hosting skills during their absence. Ray chats about Craven’s Scandinavian consumption habits and everyone decides they’ll attend the next edition of a new trade show. The hosts also highlight the upcoming Taste Radio Meetup in San Diego on Sept. 25, before Mike talks about a new business pitch television show focused on female founders. Ray busts out a bunch of easy-prep noodles and Jacqui showcases a couple unusual collaborations.

Brands in this episode: Bonbuz, Brune Kitchen, Maruchen, Funyons, immi, Watcharees, Nomad Popcorn, Tru, Driftaway Coffee, Leisure Hydration, Spicewalla

He may be nicknamed “The Beverage Whisperer,” but when Ken Sadowsky speaks he’s heard loud and clear.

A longtime industry advisor and investor, Ken is one of the most respected and influential voices in the beverage business.

Ken is currently the executive director of The Northeastern Independent Distributors Association, known as NIDA, a group of wholesalers that operate in states from Maine to Pennsylvania. He’s also a senior advisor with Verlivest, the Belgium-based investment holding company founded by the owners of Anheuser-Busch InBev, which holds stakes in Oatly, Vita Coco and Hint Water. Ken is personally invested in and an advisor to several beverage companies including LifeAid, Icelandic Glacial, Recess and Dyla Brands.

This episode is the third of a trilogy with Ken, who also joined us for conversations in 2016 and 2019. Ken and Taste Radio editor Ray Latif sample drinks representing fast-growing, bleeding-edge and established categories, including better-for-you sodas, cannabis libations, nonalcoholic cocktails, and shots of the juice variety. As they sip their way through a mish-mash of beverages, Ken shares his perspective on trendy concepts, package design, formulation his investment thesis, and successful retail strategies.

Show notes:

0:35: Ken Sadowsky, The Beverage Whisperer – Ken and Ray engage in some Sox talk before they dive into a mass of beverages, foreign and domestic. Ken talks about cutting his teeth back in 1983 and his ability to understand what brands have what it takes to go from “the core consumer to the more consumer” and why he’s not bullish on non-nutritive sugar alternatives. They sip on some Chamberlain Coffee and chat about how the cold brew coffee category has morphed and whether non-alcoholic cocktails are – at this point – more sizzle than steak. Ken also explains why he’s a fan of entrepreneurs with industry experience and why it’s important to be nice to your distributors, before sipping on Olipop’s limited-edition Barbie collaboration and sharing his take on the future of better-for-you sodas. He also admits to being an “illegal cannabis consumer” (not really), why you should sample beverages warm, getting retailers to merchandise your brand in two locations and the Catch-22 of fundraising.

Brands in this episode: Mountain Dew, Chamberlain Coffee, Throne Sport Coffee, Vitaminwater, De Soi, Little Saints, Lapo’s, Seedlip, Parch, Honest Tea, Prime, Alani Nu, Olipop, Slim Fast, Poppi, Evolution Fresh, Nantucket Nectars, Nixie, Late July, Cape Cod Potato Chips, Milonga, Recess, Magic Cactus, Alldae, Guayaki, Yerbae, Louie Louie, Fhirst, Wunderground’s Brain Wash, Califia Farms, Starbucks, Loom, The Turmeric Co., Icelandic Glacial

A recent Linkedin post penned by an executive of online distribution platform Pod Foods ignited a passionate discussion about the limited routes to market for emerging brands and whether things might be changing for the better… or worse. Taste Radio’s hosts have their say on the matter.

Show notes:

0:35: JacquIC. Mayor Melissa. Peter’s Post. Call Her Sir. Church Beer. Hydrate, Then Hike. – Jacqui takes over primary hosting duties while Ray is OOO, and does a damn good job of it. Melissa has a new moniker, and it fits her well. Community Call is, in a sense, casting – email to learn more. The hosts all weigh in on Peter Gialansis’s scribe, why UNFI and competing brands may be unfairly cast as the villains and the upside to a long and arduous road. They also share their two cents on Queen B’s latest opus and talk about upcoming industry events in San Diego before John presents his spicy mashed potatoes. Melissa then shows a patriotic side and Jacqui explains how she’s preparing for a very steep journey.

Brands in this episode: Soom Foods, Hotpot Queen, SirDavis, Idahoan, Tapatio, Fly By Jing, Pistakio, United Sodas, Misfit, Only Hydration, Liquid IV

Straight talk can be hard to come by. Speak with Taylor Foxman, however, and the veteran beverage executive and industry advisor will give you the unvarnished truth, or, as she does in this episode, declare something an outright falsehood.

Taylor has over a decade of experience in beverage alcohol and beyond, having worked for globally recognized wine, beer and spirit companies including Pernod Ricard and Gruppo Campari.

She’s currently the founder and CEO of The Industry Collective, a leading beverage and cannabis advisory firm and is also a board member/board advisor with investment firms Alethia Ventures and MacArthur Capital.

In this episode, we speak with Taylor for a conversation framed as a series of statements that she addresses as true or false, including those about the value of great taste, the impact of bad PR, the sober-curious movement, the future of cannabis beverages and Gen Z consumers’ relationship with alcoholic drinks.

Show notes:

0:35: Taylor Foxman, Founder & CEO The Industry Collective – Taylor chats with Taste Radio editor Ray Latif about her home office in New York before discussing her career experience and work with fast-growing beverage companies. Taylor then shares her take on a range of statements related to beverage brands and CPG in general, beginning each response with true or false. Her replies incorporate her perspective on public relations, personal investment strategy (and how it relates to her fridge game), why she’s bullish on moderation, a certain reality TV show, the power of one’s network in their ability to raise money and whether great brands always have a great founder story.

Brands in this episode: Ponyboy Slings, Boston Beer Co., Lyre’s, Athletic Brewing Co., Poppi, Dio Cocktails

The hosts welcome NOSH managing editor Monica Watrous to the show as they discuss Mars’ $36 billion acquisition of Kellanova, including key takeaways from the deal, its impact on the food industry and why it may spur a flow of M&A activity among entrepreneurial companies.

Show notes:

0:35: Ripple Effect. Bread Certified. Yu Try That New Brew? Cold Kelce. Meet Tha Kids. – Ray and Mike are OOO, so no soccer banter, but Monica is here to share the deets on a couple new episodes of CPG Week and her plans for the upcoming Newtopia Now trade show. She also presents a historical perspective and analysis of the Mars/Kellanova deal before John highlights a Linkedin post penned by Once Upon A Farm co-founder and CEO John Foraker about the potential for it to “start an avalanche.” The hosts munch on chia-laden snacks, sip on Liquid Death’s chocolatey collaboration with Van Leeuwen Ice Cream, tease a peanut butter taste test and praise a new premium instant coffee.

Brands in this episode: Once Upon a Farm, M&Ms, Snickers, Dove Chocolate, Rice Krispies, Pop-Tarts, Pringles, Cheez-It, Starburst, Skittles, Twix, Kind Snacks, TruFru, Natural Heaven Foods, SkinnyPop, Pirate’s Booty, Dot’s Pretzels, RXBAR, Nutrigrain, Nature’s Bakery, Chia Smash, Liquid Death, Van Leeuwen, One Trick Pony, Diamond Brew, Ruby Jean’s Juicery